Legislature(1999 - 2000)

05/11/1999 01:44 PM Senate JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
              SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE                                                                                        
                     May 11, 1999                                                                                               
                      1:44 p.m.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Robin Taylor, Chairman                                                                                                  
Senator Rick Halford, Vice-Chairman                                                                                             
Senator Dave Donley                                                                                                             
Senator Johnny Ellis                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator John Torgerson                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 151(JUD) am                                                                                               
"An Act relating to revocation and reinstatement of the driver's                                                                
license of a person at least 14 but not yet 21 years of age."                                                                   
     -HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 214(JUD)                                                                                                  
"An Act relating to litigation involving correctional facilities;                                                               
and amending Rules 59(f), 60(b), 62, and 65, Alaska Rules of Civil                                                              
Procedure."                                                                                                                     
     -MOVED CSHB 214(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HB 151 - No previous Senate action.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
HB 214 - See Judiciary minutes dated 5/10/99.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Cory Winchell                                                                                                                   
Legislative Aide to Representative Kott                                                                                         
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified for the sponsor of HB 151                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Juanita Hensley                                                                                                                 
Division of Motor Vehicles                                                                                                      
Department of Administration                                                                                                    
PO Box 110200                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK  99811-0200                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports the proposed Senate Judiciary                                                                     
Committee substitute to HB 151.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Anne Carpeneti                                                                                                                  
Assistant Attorney General                                                                                                      
Department of Law                                                                                                               
PO Box 110300                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK  99811-0300                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on the House and Senate versions of                                                               
HB 151.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Thomas Wagner                                                                                                                   
416 Harris, No. 206                                                                                                             
Juneau, AK  99801                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Favors CSHB 151(JUD) but requests the bill be                                                              
amended to include marijuana offenses.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Tom Findley                                                                                                                     
350 North Franklin St.                                                                                                          
Juneau, AK  99801                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 151                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Robert Buttcane                                                                                                                 
Division of Family & Youth Services                                                                                             
Department of Health & Social Services                                                                                          
PO Box 110630                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK  99811-0630                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports the Senate Judiciary Committee                                                                    
version of HB 151.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
First Sergeant Hudson                                                                                                           
Alaska State Troopers                                                                                                           
5700 E Tudor Rd.                                                                                                                
Anchorage, AK  99507-1225                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on HB 151                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Kevin Hyde                                                                                                                  
GLAD (Good Legislation Assures a Democracy)                                                                                     
Kenai, Alaska                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on problems with the existing law                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Bill Parker, Deputy Commissioner                                                                                                
Department of Corrections                                                                                                       
4500 Diplomacy Dr., Ste 207                                                                                                     
Anchorage, AK  99508-5918                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports HB 214                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-31, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 001                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN ROBIN TAYLOR called the Senate Judiciary Committee meeting                                                             
to order at 1:44 p.m.  Present were Senators Halford, Donley, Ellis                                                             
and Taylor.  The first order of business to come before the                                                                     
committee was HB 151.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
          HB 151-REVOCATION OF MINOR DRIVER'S LICENSE                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR informed participants that legislative staff worked                                                             
with representatives of the Departments of Law and Administration                                                               
to incorporate suggested changes into a Senate Judiciary committee                                                              
substitute.  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR pointed out the new version does not                                                               
include a provision stating that if a person is found not guilty by                                                             
a court, that verdict would rescind any administrative revocation                                                               
that occurred because of the same violation.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CORY WINCHELL, staff to Representative Kott, sponsor of the                                                                     
measure, responded that Representative Kott would consider that                                                                 
provision to be a friendly amendment however it was discussed in                                                                
the House Judiciary Committee but the problem of entangling issues                                                              
was not resolved.  He stated if the Division of Legal Services and                                                              
the Senate do not find that issue to be problematic, Representative                                                             
Kott would favor its inclusion in the bill.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. WINCHELL explained the House version of the bill.  Several                                                                  
years ago the Legislature passed a "use it and lose it" law in an                                                               
attempt to curb teen alcohol and drug use with respect to driving.                                                              
At that time the Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV) anticipated 2500                                                              
revocations would occur each year.  The actual number increased to                                                              
9,000 revocations per year of which 4800 resulted in an                                                                         
administrative appeal.  That caseload placed a burden on DMV, and                                                               
minors' licenses were being revoked for patterns that were unclear.                                                             
To clarify the statute, HB 151 establishes a nexus to a vehicle and                                                             
adds a reissuance procedure for those who can show that they have                                                               
ameliorated their unacceptable behavior.  The nexus argument                                                                    
provides that the minor must possess or consume alcohol in a                                                                    
vehicle for license revocation to occur.   The amendment proposed                                                               
by Chairman Taylor would prevent an administrative revocation from                                                              
occurring if the minor is found to be not guilty in court.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR announced the Senate Judiciary Committee work draft                                                             
is dated May 11, 1999 and was drafted by Mr. Ford.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 076                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
JUANITA HENSLEY, Division of Motor Vehicles, stated DMV is                                                                      
satisfied with the work draft.  DMV has been concerned that the                                                                 
"use it and lose it" law has had the unintended consequence of                                                                  
revoking a repeat offender's license for as long as 43 years.                                                                   
Passage of the work draft will allow DMV to review those case                                                                   
records and stack revocations concurrently so that people can get                                                               
their licenses back after completing treatment and an evaluation.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Ms. Hensley to describe the differences                                                                   
between the original bill and the newest work draft.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. HENSLEY said the previous version tied a nexus to the vehicle                                                               
so that the minor had to be occupying the vehicle and the officer                                                               
had to see the minor possessing or consuming alcohol.  The work                                                                 
draft provides that an officer can issue a citation if he/she has                                                               
probable cause to believe the minor consumed alcohol.  The minor                                                                
would have the right to an administrative hearing to contest the                                                                
revocation and to file an appeal in Superior Court.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if the nexus to the vehicle was removed.                                                                  
MS. HENSLEY said that is correct.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR expressed concern that the "use it and lose it" law                                                             
was initially targeted at minors who did not yet have the right to                                                              
drive and was to provide an incentive to not consume alcohol.                                                                   
Inadvertently, the law was written so that revocations are stacked                                                              
consecutively rather than concurrently.  The effect has been that                                                               
some people cannot get their licenses reinstated until they are 30                                                              
because they did something stupid at age 16.  He recalled that a                                                                
bill was before the previous legislature that included funds for                                                                
treatment programs for young people.  He asked about its status.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. HENSLEY replied that Chairman Taylor was referring to SB 58; it                                                             
would have given DMV the authority and a funding mechanism to refer                                                             
individuals to a treatment program.  The authority provision                                                                    
remained but the funding mechanism was removed from the bill at the                                                             
end of the previous session.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 150                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD asked how concurrent sentences will provide minors                                                              
with an incentive to stop using alcohol.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. HENSLEY remarked DMV shares Senator Halford's concern about how                                                             
to send the message to minors that it is illegal to consume or                                                                  
possess alcohol.  She stated the work draft is the best incentive                                                               
DMV, Youth Corrections and the Division of Alcohol and Substance                                                                
Abuse could come up with.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD asked whether more revocation time can be added                                                                 
after the third offense and, if so, whether that could provide a                                                                
minor with an incentive to stop using after the third violation.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. HENSLEY said additional revocation time cannot be added under                                                               
this draft.  The first revocation will decrease from 90 to 30 days,                                                             
the second will decrease from one year to 180 days, and the third                                                               
will decrease from three years to one year.  She noted she recently                                                             
requested a DMV computer run of repeat offenders which produced 21                                                              
pages of the names of minors with up to 18 violations of minor                                                                  
consuming in the last three years. Under current law the 18-year                                                                
old with 18 violations will not get his driver's license back until                                                             
he is 53 years old.  Several offenders have 14 and 15 violations;                                                               
those offenders are equally distributed in regard to race and                                                                   
gender.  DMV has no mechanism to refer offenders to treatment,                                                                  
however it does require proof of completion of an alcohol treatment                                                             
program when licenses are to be reinstated.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 215                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR noted Alaska has one of the highest teen alcoholic                                                              
populations in the United States and that the original intent of                                                                
the law was to address alcohol consumption among the teenage                                                                    
population, not merely to address drinking and driving.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. HENSLEY commented the "use it and lose it" law was enacted in                                                               
July of 1994.  In calendar year 1995, 2,891 citations were issued                                                               
for minor consuming and minor in possession. In 1998, 4,822                                                                     
citations were issued. At present 9,491 licenses have been revoked.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD suggested putting a limit on the legislation so                                                                 
that it no longer applies to drivers upon their 22nd birthday.  MS.                                                             
HENSLEY stated DMV has no problem with that approach.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 266                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR commented the House version is limited to minors                                                                
consuming alcohol in a car; the Senate Judiciary version moves away                                                             
from the nexus of the vehicle.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD moved to adopt SCSHB 151(JUD) as the working draft                                                              
before the committee.  He noted the offense was never intended to                                                               
be tied to a vehicle.  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR objected to the motion for                                                               
the purpose of discussion.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DONLEY asked who originally sponsored the legislation.                                                                  
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR replied former Representative Toohey.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DONLEY asked Mr. Winchell whether he supports SCSHB
151(JUD).                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. WINCHELL informed committee members that the nexus argument                                                                 
resulted from the Anita Storm case.  That Supreme Court case                                                                    
received a two-two decision on appeal. The decision is not binding,                                                             
but the arguments were persuasive when considered by the House                                                                  
Judiciary Committee.  In the Storm case, Superior Court Judge                                                                   
Gonzalez grappled with the question of whether administrative                                                                   
revocation was punitive or remedial in nature.  He concluded it was                                                             
punitive, and therefore needed stronger due process requirements.                                                               
The nexus argument which ties the offense to vehicles was created                                                               
by Representative Rokeberg although he would have preferred that                                                                
the offense not be tied to the nexus of a vehicle.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. WINCHELL stated in a second case named Rexford vs. State, the                                                               
court upheld that for double jeopardy cases, the "use it and lose                                                               
it" law is remedial in nature, however the House Judiciary                                                                      
Committee believes HB 151 deals with due process issues, not double                                                             
jeopardy issues.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DONLEY asked how the sponsor feels about the committee                                                                  
substitute.  MR. WINCHELL said Representative Kott would have                                                                   
concerns about the elimination of the nexus argument.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD stated the House version provides that an offense                                                               
occurs only when the minor is consuming alcohol inside a vehicle                                                                
which essentially makes the bill unenforceable.  He added the bill                                                              
is substantially different from the original intent of the law.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. WINCHELL repeated the case law is not binding.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 334                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ANNE CARPENETI, Department of Law, informed committee members a                                                                 
second case is being prepared for appeal now.  The Court of Appeals                                                             
has upheld the "use it and lose it" law and found it to be remedial                                                             
in nature.  In essence, a Superior Court judge found the law to be                                                              
unconstitutional while the Court of Appeals has found it is not.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD stated more weight should be put on the Court of                                                                
Appeals decision rather than on the Superior Court decision which                                                               
was made by an individual judge.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI indicated that at about the time the "use it and lose                                                             
it" law was enacted, the Legislature reduced the penalty for minor                                                              
consuming from a misdemeanor to a violation, which carries a                                                                    
maximum fine of $300.  The only time repeat offenders can be                                                                    
evaluated for alcohol problems is through the "use it and lose it"                                                              
program which requires evaluation before offenders' licenses are                                                                
reissued.  The Department of Law originally supported the "use it                                                               
and lose it" law, but now believes it needs to be fine tuned.  The                                                              
version of HB 151 that passed the House corrects some of the                                                                    
problems, such as shortening the periods of revocation.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DONLEY asked Ms. Carpeneti her opinion of the Senate                                                                    
Judiciary version.  MS. CARPENETI said she likes it.  She added a                                                               
good feature of the House bill is the discretion it gives to DMV to                                                             
reissue a license that was revoked for 20 years under existing law.                                                             
She cautioned the nexus requirement in the House version negates                                                                
the "use it and lose it" law because a police officer will have to                                                              
observe a minor drinking alcohol in a car to issue a minor                                                                      
consuming citation, and observe a minor holding a container to                                                                  
issue a minor in possession citation.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR expressed concern about how to establish possession                                                             
by consumption.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI said the police officer might observe and give the                                                                
minor a field sobriety test.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD asked the lowest quantity of alcohol that a                                                                     
breathalyser test will reveal.  MS. CARPENETI said she believes it                                                              
will show .001.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD said that in that case any amount of alcohol will                                                               
result in a violation for a minor.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI noted the Legislature previously addressed the                                                                    
problem of the margin of error in breathalyser tests.  The margin                                                               
of error cannot be considered except in cases of zero tolerance.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked about entanglement problems that could arise                                                              
from having the action of an acquittal in court automatically                                                                   
rescind administrative revocation.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI discussed the different standards of proof used;                                                                  
preponderance of evidence and beyond a reasonable doubt.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said his frustration lies in the fact that a family                                                             
could take a case to court and the minor could be acquitted, yet                                                                
the administrative revocation being carried out could hold a                                                                    
stiffer penalty.  He repeated that the court case should satisfy                                                                
both standards and that different standards should not be used.  He                                                             
questioned whether the bill could be drafted to make that work.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI offered to work on that issue.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Ms. Carpeneti if she is aware of whether                                                                  
insurance companies continue to charge higher insurance rates to                                                                
parents of a minor whose license was revoked even though the minor                                                              
cannot drive.  MS. CARPENETI replied insurance companies cannot                                                                 
because both Title 21 and Title 28 prohibit such rate increases.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DONLEY objected to the motion to adopt SCSHB 151(JUD) as                                                                
the working vehicle of the committee because the sponsor does not                                                               
support it.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. WINCHELL told committee members the Rexford case dealt                                                                      
primarily with double jeopardy issues.  He repeated Representative                                                              
Kott would like to include the nexus argument in the bill.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI stated the Rexford case, regarding the question of                                                                
whether the revocation is remedial or punitive, revolved around                                                                 
both double jeopardy and the procedural due process arguments.  The                                                             
fact that the case dealt primarily with double jeopardy does not                                                                
mean that it is not instructive in other issues that can be raised                                                              
in the "use it and lose it" law.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD noted the Department of Law believes the nexus                                                                  
argument makes the law virtually worthless, yet the sponsor wants                                                               
to retain that argument in the bill.  He said he cannot support a                                                               
bill that makes the statute unworkable.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR took teleconference testimony.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
FIRST SERGEANT HUDSON, Alaska State Troopers, testified from                                                                    
Anchorage and stated the bill sends a mixed message in regard to                                                                
possession versus consumption.  The Senate Judiciary version gives                                                              
a specific meaning to "possession" which will eliminate the chance                                                              
of erroneously charging a designated driver with that offense.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEVIN HYDE, representing GLAD (Good Legislation Assures a                                                                   
Democracy) made the following comments via teleconference from                                                                  
Kenai.  GLAD supports legislation that punishes minors for drinking                                                             
alcohol or using drugs but its members are frustrated by the "use                                                               
it and lose it" law.  One problem with the law is DMV's ability to                                                              
do an administrative revocation independent of a judge's decision.                                                              
GLAD questions how the number of drivers with revoked licenses                                                                  
could rise so dramatically over the past few years.  The current                                                                
law is not deterring repeat offenders.  GLAD believes requiring                                                                 
these offenses to be heard by a judge would be helpful.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR offered to send Mr. Hyde a copy of the Senate                                                                   
Judiciary version via fax and asked him to respond with GLAD's                                                                  
recommendations.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. HYDE noted GLAD's main desire is to eliminate any penalty for                                                               
a designated driver.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
NUMBER 539                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DONLEY proposed the following conceptual amendment to the                                                               
Senate Judiciary Committee version: delete the words, "while                                                                    
occupying  a motor vehicle" on line 10 and replace with, "the                                                                   
consumption occurred within the proximity of a vehicle or with a                                                                
nexus to a vehicle."   He explained that change will maintain the                                                               
linkage with a vehicle but it will not require the minor to be                                                                  
occupying the vehicle.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD stated the proposed language to be an improvement                                                               
and said he assumes the court will define the nexus to a vehicle                                                                
through case law.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI expressed concern that using the words "the nexus" in                                                             
the bill will ratify a losing argument. She noted the Department of                                                             
Law disagrees with Judge Gonzalez's opinion.  She repeated that the                                                             
purpose of the "use it and lose it" law is to provide immediate                                                                 
consequences for minor consumption or possession, and that other                                                                
laws are on the books to address drinking and driving.  The House                                                               
version was very clear on the nexus issue:  the minor had to be                                                                 
sitting in a car consuming alcohol.  The Senate Judiciary version                                                               
requires the minor to be in proximity of a car which is unclear and                                                             
will prompt litigation.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 574                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR agreed the "use it and lose it" law was based on a                                                              
much broader concept.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD said this bill will repeal the original law and the                                                             
numbers will go down tenfold, which will not provide an incentive.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI stated she believes the number of convictions will                                                                
decrease to below 400 per year.  She added when the proposed                                                                    
committee substitute was being discussed, the trade-off for having                                                              
the connection to a car was to reduce the length of revocation from                                                             
90 to 30 days for a first offense.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-31, SIDE B                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR repeated that he believes putting a provision in                                                                
the bill that negates an administrative revocation if a person is                                                               
found not guilty in court will alleviate a lot of concerns.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD agreed, as long as the minor does not use a public                                                              
defender.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI noted one cannot get a public defender or a jury                                                                  
trial for a violation.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said he believes it would be more effective to                                                                  
require minors to stand before a district court judge on a                                                                      
misdemeanor charge but it would cost more.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 575                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
TOM WAGONER, a Juneau attorney with a 16 year old client, stated he                                                             
favors the version of HB 151 that passed the House.  His client                                                                 
does not have a license.  He was allegedly caught smoking marijuana                                                             
nowhere near a car, yet under current law he will be unable to get                                                              
his drivers license.  Under Judge Gonzalez's opinion, there is an                                                               
insufficient connection between his client's behavior and the                                                                   
effects.  The consequences of having a drug and alcohol related                                                                 
driving offense are more serious than the license revocation; his                                                               
client could be prevented from engaging in certain occupations.  He                                                             
favors the nexus argument but noted the House version does not                                                                  
include marijuana offenses.  He believes alcohol and marijuana                                                                  
offenses should be treated similarly in this context.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 546                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
TOM FINDLEY, a Juneau attorney, stated he has represented minors                                                                
who have been arrested for consuming alcohol and had their licenses                                                             
suspended.  He believes the law should punish the act of minor                                                                  
consuming, that sentences should get tougher with each offense, and                                                             
that the law should provide for education about alcohol abuse.                                                                  
However, he believes the House version is not aimed at drunk                                                                    
drivers; it focuses on those who risk becoming drunk drivers and                                                                
carries a penalty of license revocation, which is why the nexus                                                                 
argument is in the bill.  If the minor is consuming alcohol or                                                                  
marijuana, but is nowhere near a vehicle, that action should have                                                               
no effect on his/her license because the problem is one of minor                                                                
consuming, not driving-while-impaired.  MR. FINDLEY stated it would                                                             
be appropriate if the number of cases decreases substantially                                                                   
because the nexus provision is retained in the bill because the                                                                 
punishment will apply to the crime and not to individuals who are                                                               
nowhere near a vehicle.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR agreed that drivers' license revocation was a                                                                   
convenient punishment for a 16 year old caught consuming but the                                                                
Legislature may have chosen the "wrong horse to ride" on this                                                                   
issue.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 446                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT BUTTCANE, a juvenile probation officer with the Department                                                               
of Health and Social Services (DHSS), stated support for the Senate                                                             
Judiciary version.  DHSS is concerned that the state has not found                                                              
a good way to deal with cases of minor consuming or minor                                                                       
possession of alcohol.  The House version will prevent DHSS from                                                                
tracking minors with significant alcohol problems and those minors                                                              
will resurface in the delinquency and criminal systems as their                                                                 
alcohol issues go unchecked.  The last Legislature created a                                                                    
mechanism so that DHSS can operate a juvenile alcohol safety action                                                             
program, but no funds were appropriated for it.  Although the                                                                   
Senate Judiciary version may not provide the best answer to the                                                                 
problem of minor consuming, it is the best available at this time.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Mr. Buttcane his opinion of reenacting the                                                                
old minor consuming law which carried a misdemeanor penalty.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BUTTCANE noted that recriminalizing minor consuming would have                                                              
a fiscal impact but that approach would address the problem more                                                                
directly.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if Mr. Buttcane thought the Administration                                                                
would support that approach. MR. BUTTCANE replied the                                                                           
Administration has had these discussions but it does not want to                                                                
support that approach without a commitment to fund it.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if the percentage of prisoners incarcerated                                                               
for crimes committed under the influence of alcohol remains the                                                                 
same.  MR. BUTTCANE said he believes that number remains at about                                                               
80 percent.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR questioned whether anyone has studied and projected                                                             
the fiscal impact on the prison system, 15 years from now, if the                                                               
minor consuming laws were enforced now.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BUTTCANE said he is not aware of any studies but they would be                                                              
worthwhile.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR reminded committee members a motion was on the                                                                  
table to adopt SCSHB 151(JUD) as the working vehicle of the                                                                     
committee.  He noted his intention to adopt it, and keep it in                                                                  
committee for a few days while amendments are prepared.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DONLEY said he believes the sponsor's concern about the                                                                 
nexus issue is likely to be resolved in the next few days,                                                                      
therefore he removed his objection to adopt SCSHB 151(JUD).                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR announced SCSHB 151(JUD) was adopted and would be                                                               
heard again at the next hearing.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                    HB 214-PRISON LITIGATION                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BILL PARKER, Department of Corrections, informed committee members                                                              
the department has been under court oversight since 1990.  It has                                                               
been attempting to get out from that oversight by complying with                                                                
each issue laid out in the court's settlement agreement.  Enactment                                                             
of HB 214 will get the Department 97 percent of the way to full                                                                 
compliance.  He noted the bill will enable the Department of                                                                    
Corrections to be out from court oversight, however it will not                                                                 
save money.  He stated support for the bill.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DONLEY moved HB 214 from committee.  There being no                                                                     
objection, the motion carried.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR announced he has four matters pending on the                                                                    
calendar to take up at another time.  He adjourned the meeting at                                                               
2:36 p.m.                                                                                                                       

Document Name Date/Time Subjects